Human Nature Odyssey: Episode 3. Imaginary Games for Grown Ups

JUNO: What are you doing?

ALEX: I'm gonna interview Michi for a podcast. Have you ever listen to a podcast? 

JUNO: No. 

MICHI: You can watch us do it. So first you say we have a new guy, which is me, Michi. And then, like, if you have any questions about animals, then answer them. 

ALEX: Would you like to say your name and how old you are?

MICHI: I'm six. 

ALEX: I would love to talk about animals. You said animals were a specialty of the things you were interested in talking about. Yeah. If I were an alien coming to Earth before, and I've never seen an animal. Can you tell me about some of the animals that are on our planet? 

MICHI: Should I talk about the skunk?

ALEX: A skunk’s a great animal. 

MICHI: I'm just gonna talk about tigers. 

ALEX: Yeah. What's a tiger? 

MICHI: It's a big cat. 

JUNO: It has lots of stripes on it. 

MICHI: and it sneaks in the floors to catch its prey and jump out to eat its prey. And why it does that? So it can eat. 

ALEX: What kind of things does it eat?

MICHI: It eats meat and nothing else. So meat is inside of an animal. 

ALEX: What's the difference between a human and an animal? 

MICHI: Well, actually, humans are animals. But the difference between humans and animals is like a lot. The animals are different that way, way different. I can't talk about all the differences.

ALEX: Humans are pretty weird animals, right? We don't have fur on our skin. We walk on our hind legs. We can't fly in the air like birds. We can't swim in the water like fish. 

MICHI: We, we we we use inventions to do that. 

ALEX: Exactly right. Right, right. 

MICHI: I thought everyone knew about inventions. 

ALEX: How would you explain to someone who doesn't know.

MICHI: So inventions is someone who makes that they make it up and they make it real so they can go underwater, or they can fly in the sky. 

ALEX: So humans, even though we can't fly like birds or swim like fish, we can make things that let us do those things. 

MICHI: Yeah. 

ALEX: There's one thing that humans make up that's maybe the most powerful at all. Do you know what it is? It's stories. 

MICHI: Yeah, stories.

Welcome to Episode 3 of Human Nature Odyssey: a podcast exploring how the stories humans tell shape the world. 

I’m Alex Leff. 

Special thanks to Michi, the opening guest of our episode. 

This is the third installment in our series on Ishmael by Daniel Quinn. First a quick recap. In the last episode we learned that Ishmael is a telepathic gorilla who was raised in captivity and observed humanity through the bars of his cage. Once Ishmael was freed he set up shop in an unobtrusive office building and put out an ad seeking pupils with an earnest desire to save the world. 

The book’s narrator visits Ishmael and they begin having some pretty heady conversations about humanity, mythology, and civilization.

Our narrator learns that Ishmael believes that the world’s dominant culture is not unlike a caged animal in a zoo - that we too are captives.

And as Ishmael proposes, the thing holding us captive, the bars of our metaphorical cage, is a story. 

Now just because a story is what holds our culture captive, that doesn’t mean there’s anything inherently wrong with stories. 

And this story has led to… disastrous results. 

In today’s episode, we’re going to find the story holding us captive. And then, by the end of our Ishmael series, we’ll have begun to tell a new one. 

Before we get any farther I wanna make sure I’m covering all my bases here, speaking to the many age demographics with us today. We started the episode with Michi, representing the kindergarten demographic. But let me just take a moment to talk specifically with a group of people I haven’t given much attention to so far. Babies. I’m sorry it’s taken me so long to address you guys specifically. 

I know the babies out there didn’t choose to listen to this. It’s not your fault your parent and/or legal guardian is trying to listen to something on their way to acroyoga or likes to play podcasts in the background while folding their socks.

But to the babies stuck listening to this today, on behalf of the adults in the world, let me just say…

I get it. You’re just being introduced into the world and it doesn’t make any sense. You’re hungry, you’re tired, you’re too cold, you’re too hot… your funny white pants are a little wet. You might have some questions for us, and that’s fair. 

Why is the sky blue? Why is nighttime dark? 
If I can put food in my mouth, why can’t I put it up my nose?
Why don’t adults wear diapers? Do they just pee in their pants? 

All perfectly reasonable questions. But just know, the answer to your questions might change depending on what culture you are raised in.

What is culture? Good question. 

There’s lots of different ways to define culture. The book I’ve been talking about, this book called Ishmael, defines culture as “a people who enact a shared story”.

What does it mean to enact a story? 

Well… it means to act out the story in real life. 

Now a culture doesn’t act out just any story - only a very special, important kind of story. A mythology.

What’s a - right. A mythology is a story that has to do with really big, important things, like humanity, the whole world, and the gods. 

Pretty soon, and it’s probably already started, you’ll begin to learn our culture’s mythology.

Now, the funny thing is, no one tells you “this is our mythology”. 

In fact, cultures don’t usually think of their mythology as a mythology, they just think of it as the truth. 

Also no one’s gonna sit you down and tell you the story all at once. It doesn’t work like that. Your parents will probably give you some answers, maybe you’ll pick stuff up off an episode of Spongebob, and glean some wisdom here and there from Cat in the Hat. Our culture’s mythology is kind of subtle - it’s the background. 

But, all these different sources, they aren’t going to be random information. At least you won’t start to see it that way. Maybe without even realizing, you'll begin to pick up on our mythology. 

And the reason why you won’t hear the whole story out loud is because the things we tend to all agree on are the things that get taken for granted. And when things are taken for granted, they rarely have to be mentioned out loud. 

You’ll probably notice that some of the smaller details and versions of the story may be a bit different depending who you talk to. For example, your mom might let you wear shoes in the house and your friend’s mom might be a no shoes wearing hippie - but ultimately they both think we’re supposed to live in a house. In fact, because they both agree about this you’ll probably never hear them have to say we’re supposed to live in a house. It’ll just be the assumption.

So then later you find out that you live in something called “a country” and in your country people think it’s good to drive on a certain side of the road. One day, you might go to another country and find the people there believe no, no, no, the other side of the road, now that’s the side to drive on. Again, these differences, ultimately they’re trivial. What they both agree on, and therefore don’t talk about, is that we’ve got to be driving and it’s got to be on a road. 

But the really big story, the mythology, that our culture tells isn’t really about wearing shoes in the house or driving on one side of the road. It’s about something much larger than that. Something called civilization. 

Did this make any sense?

Okay well I’m gonna go back to talking with the older people but hey, you’re doing great, keep doing your baby thing, I’m rooting for you. [Yosi noise]

Okay hey guys, I’m back. We were just talking about baby stuff. It’s all things you already know.

So I first read Ishmael when I was 14. And when I got to the part where Ishmael tells the narrator that civilization is a story our culture acts out, I immediately understood: oh, it’s an imaginary game. 

Man, I loved imaginary games. Catch me on the playground at Cheltenham Elementary I would have been totally immersed in a Pokemon battle on the swingset with Mitchell and Elliot. 

But by the time I hit Middle School, I started feeling embarrassed about playing imaginary games. It didn’t seem like a very grown-up thing to do. 

Don’t get me wrong, I still totally did secretly in my basement even all through high school. [telling a secret] Like for example, I made up this country, Leffonia, which was founded in the year 2000 after a decade long conflict with France over a new piece of land that just formed thanks to volcanic eruptions in the Indian Ocean west of Australia. I would be in that world for hours. [thinking, then quickly] - Leffonia’s founding father and first elected president was also named Alex Leff, anyway…

But by 14, when I was first reading Ishmael, I already had way less time for imaginary games than I used to. I was too busy going to school, being taught by teachers who’d tell us all about the real world they were preparing us for. 

“Oh, oh, just wait until you get to the real world…” did they say that to you? I always thought that was weird ‘cause like, Mr. Huggins, aren’t you here, in school, with us all day?  If this isn’t the real world, what are you doing? 

So when Ishmael talked about enacting a story it made total sense to me that this real world I was supposedly being prepared for was some kind of imaginary game for grown ups. Instead of Pokemon and Star Wars it was homework and grades, and then eventually it would be jobs and paychecks, bureaucracies and nation-states. It’s all the acting out of a really weird, incredibly elaborate, often boring imaginary game - yet the consequences are very real and the stakes are very high. 

And it wasn’t just my suburban town of Cheltenham that was part of this game. It was being enacted worldwide by a dominant culture that Ishmael calls: “the Takers”. 

In Ishmael, the Takers are the ones who are acting out the story that’s destroying the world. 

And this isn’t some kind of cult or special group. This is a very broad category. At this point in history, most of the world has been roped into the dominant culture of the Takers. 

In the next episode we’re going to really explore who Ishmael considers part of this huge group but chances are, if you are listening to this, you live in what Ishmael would call… Taker Civilization. 

And the story the Takers act out, the story that holds us captive, is Taker Mythology. 

And, as I was trying to explain to our baby listeners earlier, you’ll never really hear the mythology spoken out loud. It exists subtly in bits and pieces. 

And what Ishmael does is weave together these fragments into a cohesive narrative, one simple story that if we tell out loud, maybe we’ll see that it’s just a story. Learn how to stop enacting it. And start to act out a new one. 

According to Ishmael, Taker Mythology, c mythologies, begins with a creation myth. 

There are many versions of our culture’s creation myth. One of the most well known is a very ancient story, passed down orally for countless generations, before being transcribed into what is now known as the first book of the Bible: the book of Genesis. You know this story, it’s the story of how God created the world. 

First God said let there be light, separated the heavens from the earth, made the oceans, blah blah blah, over a few days made “plant yielding seeds of every kind” yada yada then “every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth”, and then finally, badabing badaboom, God created humankind in God’s image. And God told Adam and Eve, (and I quote *clear throat*) to go “fill the earth and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves upon the earth.” 

Wow. 

So what’s the moral of this biblical creation story? What’s it telling us about our place in the world? 

Cuz it’s not like God created jellyfish last and told jellyfish to have dominion over the earth. 

I’m kinda getting the vibe that the world was made for us. 

This is the premise of Taker Mythology, the fundamental assumption - according to Ishmael - that our entire culture is based on is that “the world was made for us.” 

And if the world was made for us, then that would mean Adam and Eve and all their descendants would be within their right to go around treating the world like it was made for us, damming the world’s rivers, plowing its fields, filling its swamps, clearing its forests. 

But here’s the thing, even if this is not a story you believe literally, even if you don’t think God really spoke to Adam and Even telling them they had dominion over the earth, the mythological imprint is still there. 

And not just in the Abrahamic religions, the judeo-christian-islamic world, or even the religious world in general. 

In fact, the same message, the core of the Taker creation myth, can be conveyed even without any religious language.

You can call humans the dominant species or the most evolved form of consciousness. Either way it’s conveying that humans are the pinnacle of creation. All of life was leading to us. Which is not actually what science says. It’s our mythology speaking in scientific language.

There’s a quote by the author and conservationist Aldo Leopold that I think speaks to this well. Writing in 1949, Leopold wrote: “It is a century now since Darwin gave us the first glimpse of the origin of species. We know now what was unknown to all the preceding caravan of generations: that man is only fellow-voyagers with other creatures in the odyssey of evolution. This new knowledge should have given us, by this time, a sense of kinship with fellow-creatures; a wish to live and let live; a sense of wonder over the magnitude and duration of the biotic enterprise.”

[record this just in case but you can delete it] When I asked Michi at the beginning of this episode what is the difference between humans and animals, the first thing he told me was that humans are animals. We generally don’t think of humans as a totally separate entity from the natural world anymore. 

What Aldo Leopold is saying is that even though most of us understand we weren't created separately but evolved with the rest of life, it seems our old relationship with the world has been maintained. Even if we understand we are one of many creatures on this earth, we still act as if we’re the ones made in god's image. 

The confusing world I was growing up in, the world of suburbs and cities and the looming development of Ashbourne country club started to make a bit more sense to me. At least I could start to see why we were acting this way.

As I went about my day,  I could see the evidence of our Taker culture acting like the world belongs to us. 

It was playing out not just in large-scale, epic ways, like the blasting away of million-year-old mountaintops for an energy source that gets used up in just one human lifetime, but all the way down to even the most mundane things. 

Here’s an example (not from Ishmael but from me) of the story “the world belongs to us” being acted out. 

Have you ever gone to some big ass store, let’s say Home Depot, to do your Sunday shopping? 

You can come with me and my Dad while he looks for the right tools to fix our gutter. 

As we complete the trek from our car across the once forest now barren asphalt parking lot, you’ll notice the big ass sign welcoming you to Home Depot. The giant letters tower over us like ancient monuments. And in the crevices of each massive letter you notice something. Despite the welcoming message of the word “Home” there are metal spikes, like the barbed wires stopping the encroachment of enemy lines. But these are little metal spikes for very little enemies. These metal spikes go by different names: like bird deterrent spikes or anti-bird nails. And on Amazon they advertise that these spikes will let you “repel flying pests” or “make any area a landing free zone”. That’s right. Not only was the bird’s habitat cleared for the parking lot and accompanying building, but even the letters of the freakin’ sign are lined with steel spikes to make sure that no bird could dare make this sign that says home, be their home. And it’s not just the signs on buildings, it’s on the roofs of parking lots, the sides of bridges, the tops of stadium lights. 

But what about the birds? Where can they make a nest? Ask someone who gives a shit, the world was made for us. 

So if Ishmael the gorilla asked someone why there’s all those metal spikes to keep off birds, he’d probably get the answers “well you can’t have pigeons taking roost on our buildings” or “hey it’s more humane than killing them” but what Ishmael would hear, deep down, in the subtle unsaid message of these reasons, is that they believe the world belongs to them. 

Okay so we have the Creation Myth down… and an oddly specific bird-based example of what it means to act out that the world was made for us. 

That’s just the prologue of Taker Mythology. That’s the opening credits. 

The movie is just getting started.

Ishmael divides the rest of the story into three parts: the Beginning. The Middle. And the End. So let us continue, with the Beginning…

Wait, wait, before we get into the real action, [trumpet fail sound] I need to introduce a special tool for us to use on our journey.. This isn’t from Ishmael, it’s a gift from me. I call it the Taker Mythology hat. It’s an imaginary hat but as we’re seeing, imaginary games taken seriously have real power. We each wear our own imaginary Taker hat. Your hat can look any way you want, maybe some feathers, pearls and diamonds, maybe it’s that kinda hat with the little spinny fan thing on top, you know what I’m talking about? My Taker Hat is a black top hat because I think top hats are underrated. It also has googly eyes.

So what’s the point of this hat? 

Well we’re all opinionated, critical thinkers here. We think for ourselves. And that’s very important but what this hat does is temporarily turn off our own ideas so we can tap into a more general cultural sense of things, the conventional wisdom. When we wear the Taker Mythology Hat we’re able to ask not what we think but what our overall culture thinks. The hive mind, ya know.

So with the help from our new Taker hat, let’s get to: The Beginning of Taker Mythology. 

[triumphant trumpet sound]

In the beginning of Taker Mythology, Ishmael points out, the world may have been made for humans but humans didn’t realize this right away. Picture Adam and Eve running around naked in the garden of Eden with just a little leaf covering them up. Okay, sorry Adam, the leaf wasn’t that little. 

Back then, humanity lived like any other animal. What does it mean to live like an animal? 

Okay this is where our Taker Mythology Hats come in. I’m putting mine on. If I listen closely, I can hear it starting to talk to me. 

Taker Hat: Hey how you doing? Always a pleasure to be up here on your head, thanks for having me. 

Thanks for being here Taker Mythology Hat. We were hoping we could ask you some questions today. 

Taker Hat: Hey you know I love giving advice. First one I’m gonna give for free. Two words, my friend: dandruff shampoo. Ha! Ha! 

Um, okay, thanks for that. 

Remember, we’re not trying to argue with the Taker Hat here. It’s valuable information for us to just listen to what he says… for now.

So, Taker Mythology Hat-

Taker Hat: Yeah.

I wanted to ask you what’s the general sense our culture has of what it means to live like an animal? What do you picture?

Taker Hat: Hmmm, okay, okay, to live like an animal…

Like is it like a Disney movie where all the woodland creatures spend their time dancing and singing with each other? 

Taker Hat: Yeah no, I’m not buying that. Life was terrible back then for you humans. You guys were barely scraping by. 

Ah, I see. I actually sent some of these hats to a few friends of mine as well and asked them what their Taker Hat tells them about what living like an animal was like back then.

NARE: Okay I’m gonna put on my Taker Mythology Hat here… My hat is telling me that when humans were living like an animal we were hiding a lot and everything was out of our control.

BRIAN: My hat says we were wasting our time. We didn’t have tools. We weren’t advancing.

MARK: Okay so my hat is saying that to live like an animal is to be constantly afraid. 

So do those other Taker Hats sound right to you?

Taker Hat: Yeah I mean, imagine a pack of wild wolves tearing you to shreds, the terror of becoming someone’s meal at any moment, every step you take could be your last. You ever heard that poem, “nature, red in tooth and claw?” You wouldn’t like that tooth and claw, my friend.

Yeah it doesn’t sound great. Well thanks Taker Hat, you’ve disturbed me greatly. 

Taker Hat: Anytime. 

Let me take you off for a minute. 

This reminds me of that old line, that humanity’s origins were “nasty, brutish, and short.” And when Thomas Hobbes, the English philosopher, wrote that line back during the Enlightenment, he wasn’t saying anything that controversial. He was just articulating the general cultural viewpoint at the time. The 17th century European version of Taker Mythology. 

The full quote of the “nasty, brutish, and short line” is in Thomas Hobbes’ book “Leviathan” written in 1651. He’s describing what life for humans was like way back in the day, what he calls the ‘state of nature’: Here’s the full quote:  [pompous British accent] “In such condition, [the state of nature] there is no place for Industry, because the fruit thereof is uncertain: and consequently no Culture of the Earth; no Navigation, nor use of the commodities that may be imported by Sea; no commodious Building; no instruments of moving, and removing such things as require much force; no Knowledge of the face of the Earth; no account of Time; no Arts; no Letters; no Society; and which is worst of all, continuall feare, and danger of violent death; And the life of man, solitary, poore, nasty, brutish, and short.” 

Where did Hobbes get this idea that this is what it’s like to live as an animal in the state of nature? Sure, I mean a beaver’s not sitting down to write anyone a letter but is it living in continual fear? And who are we to call it nasty? Was this idea coming from some pure place within the logic of Thomas Hobbes mind? Or was he wearing his own Taker Hat and regurgitating a bit of Taker Mythology?

The irony is, Leviathan was written during the European Enlightenment, when long held religious beliefs were supposedly being challenged. This last quote from Thomas Hobbes is a great example of how the mythology of long ago, even without religious language, filters into so-called secular thought. 

And it’s not that the opposite of what Hobbes is saying is really true instead. I’m definitely not saying beavers live forever and play Nintendo all day. What I want us to examine is when our ideas about the world are really just Taker Mythology speaking through us.

So back to Ishmael: according to our mythology, as the narrator puts it, to live like an animal is to live, “at the mercy of the world… without having any control over [the] environment”

I’m gonna put on my Taker hat again and try to sense where the story goes next.

Taker Hat: Okay so the issue with living like an animal is that the world was made for humans.

That’s the premise of Taker Mythology.

Taker Hat: Right. And if the world was made for humans, then humans can’t live by the world’s rules, the world’s supposed to live by yours! Just like God told Adam and Eve, if the world was made for humans, humans had to master it. 

And how were we supposed to do that?

Taker Hat: Well this is the perfect time for a quick word from our sponsor: 

We have a sponsor? 

[Civilization ad]

Are you tired of always being afraid? Of not knowing where your next meal will come from or if you’ll be the one on the menu? Well do I have the thing for you.

It’s time you tried: “The Agricultural Revolution.” It’s easy. First settlement gives rise to division of labor. Division of labor gives rise to technology. 

Follow these simple steps and before you know it, you’ll be a part of… Civilization.

You’re not meant to live at the mercy of the world - you’re supposed to take matters into your own hands. Go ahead, master your environment! What do you think that big brain of yours is for anyway, cracking coconuts? 

Civilization. More fun than a pillow fight. 

Taker Hat: That’s right, and if humanity is the pinnacle of creation (or evolution - I don’t pick sides), then civilization is the pinnacle of humanity. Get what I’m saying? Besides, the world needed you guys, you humans.

Really? Why did the world need us?

Taker Hat: Because without humans, the world is complete chaos! It’s a dog eat dog world out there, it’s a lawless jungle, total anarchy. Well who’s the kind of person who brings order to anarchy? 

I guess some kind of ruler? A dictator or something?

Taker Hat: That’s right. Humans are supposed to be the kings of nature, the emperors of the world. 

Ah-ha okay then we can add a key detail to our original premise: “The world was made for humans… and humans were meant to rule it.” 

The story is starting to take some shape here. 

This brings us… to the Middle of Taker Mythology. 

Taker Hat: Oh this is a good part. It gets exciting. 

Oh yeah?

Taker Hat: Yeah, you see there’s a plot twist. 

What’s that?

Taker Hat: Well sure humans were meant to rule the world but uh… it sure seems like God didn’t tell the world that. 

Let’s phone a friend again and ask what their Taker hat tells them.

When humans set out to rule the world, what happened? 

BRIAN: Nature fought back. 

MARK: Mother Nature used guerrilla tactics, which is what happens once you're fighting an occupying force.

NARE: The world didn’t know what was good for it. We came in like the substitute teacher and the class wouldn’t listen.

Taker Hat: And if the people won’t submit to the King’s rule what does he have to do? He has to conquer them.

Ishmael describes it like like this:

“What man built up, the wind and rain tore down. The fields he cleared for his crops and his villages, the jungle fought to reclaim. The seeds he sowed, the birds snatched away. The shoots he nurtured, the insects nibbled. The harvest he stored, the mice plundered. The animals he bred and fed, the wolves and foxes stole away. The mountains, the rivers, and the oceans stood in their places and would not make way for him. The earthquake, the flood, the hurricane, the blizzard, and the drought would not disappear at his command… In order to make himself the ruler of the world, man first had to conquer it.”

This part of Taker Mythology is constantly being acted out around us to this day. 

On the peaceful lawns of my suburban childhood, you could watch and hear the battle for human supremacy waging. Every autumn, the leaves change to spectacular colors and gently fall to the ground. What a precious, miraculous event we get to witness every year. But lost in the Taker mindset, this becomes a grievous threat and great effort is put into collecting these leaves, stuffing them into plastic bags, and hauling them away like they’re trash for the landfill.

And with the invention of the gas powered leaf blowers, from the crack of dawn till an hour after sunset, you can hear the nonstop battle with the leaves.


In Taker Culture, I guess getting these leaves off our lawns is more important than some peace and quiet! 

So we’ve covered the Creation Myth, the Beginning, and the Middle of Taker Mythology.

So far it goes: the world was made for us and we were meant to rule it, and when the world doesn’t get with the program, we’ve got to enforce our rule.

We’ve now arrived… at the End of Taker Mythology. 

So has humanity conquered the world yet? Have we done it? Did we win? 

NARE: We haven’t yet - the world is even harder to control. 

MARK: The oceans are rising, wildfires are worse, there are more floods. 

What’s the problem here? Why haven’t we conquered the world yet?

BRIAN: We’ve grown too strong. We’re like a kid wrestling with their Dad - too strong to play-wrestle with him.

It turns out… our domination of the world has also devastated the world. Oops.

In the last episode, we talked with Professa Keller about how we’re living in a time of mass extinction. 

Here’s the strange thing. You’d think that for Taker Mythology, this would be the unraveling of the story. After all, Taker Mythology is about a chosen species conquering the world, isn’t it? Wouldn’t this ironic destruction of the world kinda ruin the plot? Well Ishmael suggests, Taker Mythology was actually anticipating this ending. 

How is the story supposed to end? Taker Hat?

Taker Hat: Oh me? Well I can’t see the future, but the way I see it, and I’m speaking on behalf of all Taker Mythology here…

Of course. 

There are two possible endings to the story.

Oh yeah?

Taker Hat: Yeah. Alright so sure there are a few serious crises on hand. Wildfires, droughts, floods, homelessness, famine, plagues, potential nuclear annihilation-

Yes, and?

Taker Hat: Don’t worry. These are just more problems to solve and hey, I mean you guys are pretty dang good at solving problems, am I right? When you were too hot you invented central air, did you not? When you were too cold you invented space heaters and electric blankets, know what I’m saying?

Yeah, that’s true. 

Taker Hat: You got your greatest minds on it, my friend. I bet Elon Musk is working on the ultimate anti-mass-extinction-o-rama contraption as we speak. 

So what would the world look like if Takers eventually fully conquer the world? 

Taker Hat: Oh that’s easy, the world would be a utopia. 

A utopia? 

Taker Hat: That’s right, it would only rains when you say it rains. Crops would grow at the snap of your fingers. You’d get more energy from solar and nuclear fusion than you know what to do with. Picture it: chrome highways, golden cities, an oculus rift for everyone! 

In a way that makes sense. I mean, what’s the point of conquering the world if you don’t think you’re going to create a better world? And at the end of a better world, is a perfect world. 

Taker Hat: And hey I don’t wanna hype you up too much here but…

You’re literally describing us taking over the whole world, so… go ahead. 

Taker Hat: Well all I’m saying is: so the gods made the world for humans and humans were supposed to rule it. Right?

According to Taker Mythology, right. 

Taker Hat: Well maybe… humans are supposed to become gods themselves.

Actually I’ve heard the author Yuval Harari say a similar thing. In his recent and very popular books Sapiens and Homo Deus, he argues that’s exactly what’s supposed to happen, that humanity is supposed to evolve into gods. 

Ishmael would say that’s the perfect articulation of the Taker viewpoint. 

Taker Hat: Geez, again with this Ishmael book.

It’s just for the Ishmael series. I’m not gonna talk about it forever-

Taker Hat: Sure, whatever.

Anyway, Ishmael explains the Taker end goal like this:

Humans “have to go on conquering it until our rule is absolute. Then, when we’re in complete control, everything will be fine. All the life processes of this planet will be where they belong—where the gods meant them to be—in our hands. And we’ll manipulate them the way a programmer manipulates a computer.”

But… I don’t know, looking at the world today, the wars, the pandemic, mass extinction, it seems more chaotic than ever before. Are we really supposed to be gods? We seem like pretty crappy gods. 

Taker Hat: Well maybe you just gotta try harder, huh? Patience, trust the process, just keep advancing and doing your thing. Don’t worry about it.

So Taker Mythology tells us the natural world was a lawless chaos that we had to bring order to and if we humans do what we’re meant to do, conquer the world, master the environment, then we can become like gods and live happily ever after?

Taker Hat: Ehhh, well… not so fast.

Not so fast? What are you talking about? I thought you’d agree that’s the ending. 

Taker Hat: I told you… there’s two possible endings. 

Okay, what’s the other one? 

Taker Hat: So, you see, on one hand humans could totally crush it and make the world a perfect utopia. Or…

Or what?

Taker Hat: Or… you’re doomed. You’re just gonna screw this up like you always do. 

What?!

Taker Hat: Yeah you’re probably gonna destroy yourselves and the whole world too. My money’s on that one. 

So we’re not supposed to be gods? Taker Mythology was wrong.

Taker Mythology: No, no, no. The exact opposite. You are supposed to be gods, but in the alternative ending you’re totally and completely doomed.

But why? Why would we be doomed?

I told you - I can’t see the future! But I will tell you this, if you screw this up it won’t be Taker Mythology’s fault, it’ll be yours.

How is it our fault?

Taker Hat: You know the answer. If you can’t rule the world like you’re supposed to, it’s because humans are too greedy, too stupid, too short sighted… you’re flawed! You’re inherently flawed. 

So according to Taker Mythology [referring to the conversation I just had], we’re either destined to conquer the world or we’re doomed to destroy it?

Taker Hat: Pretty much.

Either “the world is our enemy” or “we’re the world's enemy”

Taker Hat: Yup. 

I guess, [figuring it out] these seem completely contradictory but they’re really two sides of the same coin. Both see us in conflict with the world. 

Taker Hat: Bingooo. You got it. Now do you still need me or can I get going? I gotta whisper some things into Mark Zuckerberg’s ear, he’s about to make a presentation on the metaverse. 

Huh? Oh, um sure. Yeah, thanks Taker Hat. (sigh) I think that’s all we need from you for today.

Taker Hat: Hey don’t mention it. Always happy to help. Next time you want me to bring the dandruff shampoo or do you got it?

I know, I know, I’ll get some. Thank you.

Taker Hat: You’re welcome. 

It’s tempting to agree with the second ending of Taker Mythology - that we’re inherently flawed. Humans are messed up. Maybe we are doomed to kill each other and destroy the world. That’s just human nature. It’s like the secular version of the Christian idea of original sin. We’re all flawed, we’re all sinners. 

But the Taker Hat isn’t on our head anymore. We can finally take it off and question its wisdom. 

So is it a fact that humans are flawed? Where in our DNA does it show we’re flawed? Flawed compared to what? Some ideal we could never live up to? This isn’t a fact - it’s mythology. We’re not destined to act this way. 
 
So to summarize Taker Mythology that Ishmael outlines it’s: 

The world is made for us humans and we are meant to rule it. But the world is out of our control so we must conquer it. Under our rule the world is supposed to be a paradise, but if it all goes to hell it’s because humans are flawed. 

The world is made for us.
We are meant to rule it.
We must conquer it. 
It’ll be a paradise. 
We are doomed.
[repeating this in a round with multiple audio tracks - maybe recordings from friends of other Taker Hats]

This story has been playing out for a long time. The earliest Takers, like the Sumerians and Egyptians, were enacting this story when they transformed their regions into agricultural superpowers. The Greeks and Persians and Romans were enacting this story when they expanded their empires over thousands of miles. And the western European monarchies and nation states were enacting this story when they colonized most of the world. 

And we’re still enacting the story to this day. 

Even if you don’t believe this story is true, we seem to be stuck acting it out all together. Ishmael describes it like being an animal caught in a stampede. 

So it turns out the “real world” my teachers worked so hard to prepare me for was born of this ancient mythology.

Back when I first read Ishmael and was seeing the world I was raised in anew, I started to realize that adults never really stop playing imaginary games. The difference may be, unlike children, adults forget they’re playing it. But what would happen if we could remember, if we could kind of snap out of it, and more clearly hear the story rather than brush it off as background noise? 

This story has become our reality. We are locked in its cage but at least now we can see the bars. 

And from the bars of our cage, we might start to notice what slips through the cracks. 

Ishmael believes the reason why we can’t control the world isn’t because there’s a fundamental problem with us, that we’re inherently greedy, or innately selfish and destructive.

The problem is not that we’re doing a bad job of enacting the story. Enacting the story is the problem.

Okay, we’ve been captives behind the bars of our cage for long enough. Are you ready? Careful now, let’s make sure no one’s watching, and let’s peer beyond the bars of our cage-

Taker Hat: Wait, wait, wait, uhhh, what are ya doing there boss?

Oh hey, what are you still doing here?

Taker Hat: I’m killing time. My uber is late. So what were you saying?

I was saying that it’s time for us to peer out beyond the bars of our cage-

Taker Hat: Yeah, yeah, listen, whatever you do, do not do that. 

Why not?

Taker Hat: Ehhh, there’s nothing to see there.

So if there’s nothing to see then there shouldn’t be a problem if we just peek over -

Taker Hat: (simultaneously) No, no, no - don’t do that. No, no, nooooooooooo-

The Takers imagine the land beyond our cage is a ‘virgin wilderness’. But there are other people here and they’re not Takers. They live very different lives because they enact a very different story. Ishmael has a name for them too. He calls them Leavers. And in the next episode we’re going to meet them. 

Thanks for listening today.

On the next episode of Human Nature Odyssey, we’ll spend time with the two groups Ishmael divides the world into: the Takers and the Leavers, and explore the clash as old as civilization itself. 
 
Until next time, maybe you’ll start to notice our culture’s dominant story, Taker Mythology, playing out around you. Can you see this story being acted out - like an imaginary game? 

Talk to you soon.

Thank you to Michi, Juno, Yosi, Brian, Nare, Mark, Dana, Dad, Joe, and Honan for helping create this episode. 

Our theme music is Celestial Soda Pop by Ray Lynch. You can find a link in our show notes.

And if you’d like to support the Human Nature Odyssey, please subscribe wherever you enjoy your podcasts, leave us a review, and visit humannatureodyssey.com. Also we do have a Patreon where you’ll find additional materials just for you. Each month there’ll be either a bonus audio episode that dives deeper into specific subjects, writings and mini essays, or my recommendations for reading, watching, listening, on these topics with my notes and commentary. Your support makes this endeavor possible. And I’d love to hear what you think. So leave a message on the Patreon and be a part of the conversation.